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Traveller-digest     Sunday, December 12 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1483<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re Nobility<BR>
Re Recent Gaming<BR>
Re: Focusing Games & Handouts (was Re: Munchkins)<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
Re: U-505 capture<BR>
Re: Elmore Artwork in T4<BR>
OT: Dragon Archive Question<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
Re: Re Munchkins<BR>
Re: Munchkins<BR>
Re: Munchkins<BR>
RE:  List Members in an Active Campaign Wager<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
Re: Food Sources for Space Colonies<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
re: Munchkins<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
Re: Deserts<BR>
Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 01:46:55 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Nobility<BR>
<BR>
Hans Writes<BR>
>>William F. Hostman writes:<BR>
><BR>
>>Boris writes<BR>
>><BR>
>>>   There is an interesting article in one of the Traveller Chronicle <10 by<BR>
>>>Andy Slack(?)  dealing with the extension of social standing from A-Z that<BR>
>>>way filling plenty of room for lots of noble ranks.  It is really a first<BR>
>>>class piece of writing.<BR>
><BR>
>That was in #9 and it was by me.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, it was by Hans.<BR>
<BR>
>>It also totally changes the feel of the setting (I've tried it). I'd<BR>
>>suggest avoiding it... but it is wonderfully written. It also is not<BR>
>>supportive of existing canon.<BR>
><BR>
>Really? Tell me more (either here or by e-mail if you don't think it would<BR>
>interest others). What did you try? What went wrong? And why do you think it<BR>
>isn't supportive of existing canon as a whole? I mean, I know it contradicts<BR>
>some canon, but that is because (IMO, of course) canon contradicts itself<BR>
>(Specifically, if you count Imperial nobles from the top down, you get<BR>
>10,000 or perhaps 100,000 peers, while if you count from the bottom up, you<BR>
>get tens or hundred of millions).<BR>
><BR>
It confirmed what I felt (and told you via extensive discussion off list oh<BR>
those years ago)... It was too complex for my player group; It meant that<BR>
the PC's who were elevated for service were not, in fact, imperial nobles,<BR>
and thus didn't count (or so was the players' contention); it added nothing<BR>
positive to the feel of nobility, but did detract from the experience. It<BR>
also made the players (One of whom was soc 15) very reluctant to even stop<BR>
in to the local imperial baron on a Social call, let alone seek him out as<BR>
a potential patron, source of info, or even social contact.<BR>
<BR>
If one has imperial nobility so far separated, the ability of PC's to FEEL<BR>
connected to the imperium is reduced.<BR>
<BR>
I use the following base-lines... The local ruler is also an Imperial<BR>
Baron, count or viscount. All Local nobility are knights or barons on the<BR>
imperial scale. A Major World with subordinate governments (such as a local<BR>
multi-system polity which joined as a polity, rather than individual<BR>
worlds) would have their leader an Imperial Marquis. IMTU, All barons and<BR>
higher have voice in the moot, regaurdless of type; only those in service<BR>
to the imperium have a vote, and most send proxies to trusted associates<BR>
on/near capital.<BR>
<BR>
In GURPS terms, make local ranks cheaper (ala courtesy ranks). If Imperial<BR>
Social rank is 5 pts/level, A Major world should be 3 pts a level, and a<BR>
minor one 2. Reduce each by 1 point if honor title.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 01:56:22 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Recent Gaming<BR>
<BR>
>I have rarely used Traveler rules for roleplaying , as I don't like using<BR>
>rules for roleplaying even with goood rules, and in general Traveler rules<BR>
>are not good for actual playing (though they're great as a basis for<BR>
>character creation, ship design and wargaming )<BR>
<BR>
The rules of any roleplaying game should be a basis for resolving those<BR>
bits which are NOT "Role Played". By by that standard, the rest of the<BR>
followingg makes little sense...<BR>
<BR>
>But I've used the Traveller universe conntinually, right now we're doing a<BR>
>hybrid of Jovian Chronicles*  and T2300, as the Pluto research station<BR>
>finally finish building the first stuterwarp craft, and take the untested<BR>
>ship out into instellar space to avoid it being captured by an Earther<BR>
>strike force...<BR>
><BR>
[snip]<BR>
><BR>
>*something all Traveller players should read, if only for great looking<BR>
>ships. Jesse, if you ever get the chance consider doing one of the Jovian<BR>
>Chronicles ships, I suspect it would be damn dificult, they aren't<BR>
>smooth-hulled like Traveller ships, more like Bab5 EarthForce ships.<BR>
<BR>
JC is a wonderfully written game. It has a decent set of rules; a simple<BR>
and consistant mechanic. The mechanics are a hybrid of tactical wargame and<BR>
roleplaying skill systems. The vehicle design system is more a rating<BR>
system, which also tells you how big it MUST be (as a range), based upon<BR>
the basic tech level of the system. Not to mention it is compatable with<BR>
Heavy Gear and Tribe 8. But, the system overall, while well written and<BR>
simple, looks to lend it self more to dice-rolling than role-playing. (I<BR>
have not yet run any of the DP9 stuff except as solo-combat bits). Best<BR>
non-FTL RPG setting I've read. Much better than Terradyne. Setting with<BR>
details as rich and mineable for ideas as S1889.<BR>
<BR>
I do agree, however, that it should eb looked at, especially the books on<BR>
ships. Great feel for TL9, extended duration, in-system ships. Note: Trav<BR>
TL 9 is pregravitic, and late TL 9 is jump capable.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:44:58 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Focusing Games & Handouts (was Re: Munchkins)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks to everyone who has been putting ideas forward.  <BR>
<BR>
I will certainly use handouts, assuming my terrible case of laziness<BR>
doesn't prevent me...<BR>
<BR>
The other ideas are interesting, and I will consider them further, though<BR>
my brain is a bit zapped tonight, after a hard day of fighting off the Red<BR>
Army.  (We were demonstrating and playtesting a set of WWII miniatures<BR>
rules some guys up north designed, and admiring the miniatures they<BR>
designed.  The game quite literally went all day, with new forces being<BR>
sent in to replace units that got chewed up.  Eventually I was swamped by<BR>
sheer weight of numbers.  Eventually my brain started hurting, too.)  <BR>
<BR>
My opponents were two of the munchkins I will be playing Traveller with. <BR>
It would have been _really_ cool if we had been playing Striker (either<BR>
version).<BR>
<BR>
I discovered that the munchkin who had picked up a second-hand copy of TNE<BR>
has got a copy of T4 too, now.  Unfortunately, the only T4 supplement he<BR>
can find in Brisbane is the mouse mat called Starships.  I gave him the<BR>
appropriate advice, and I will get the errata to him when I see him next<BR>
(next year!).<BR>
<BR>
What was _really_ scary, though, was that someone I played Traveller with<BR>
in _1982_ was there, and he threatened to start a **CT** game.  The horror!<BR>
 The horror!<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:29:42 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
> From: Robert Prior <BR>
> When I was a lad in Saskatoon I just threw on another <BR>
> lawyer of clothing and skied to school. <BR>
   ^^^^^^<BR>
<BR>
How much do lawyer pelts cost up there?  I suppose it has the advantage<BR>
that it wouldn't offend the animal libbers.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 08:02:05 -0500<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: U-505 capture<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Gallery wrote a book about his wartime experiences including the<BR>
>> capture of the U-505. I don't recall the name of it but it's got a few<BR>
>> giggles in it.<BR>
><BR>
>Given the way the one piece of his "fiction" I've read ("Now Hear<BR>
>This") reads, I wouldn't be a bit surprized.<BR>
<BR>
I Checked with the large online retailer and it looks like<BR>
the title is "Clear the Decks." Sadly out of print. I actually<BR>
thought it was more filled with humorness than his fiction.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip of my original question and most of Leonards response><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>And then, of course, there's the question of whether or not public key<BR>
>ciphers will endure the test of time. If they do, the situation changes<BR>
>*greatly*. There's little *need* to change keys. All that capturing a<BR>
>ship will give you is the ship's "private key" and those of the<BR>
>officers and crew. Which means you can decode messages *to* them, and<BR>
>fake messages *from* them. Which isn't really all that useful.<BR>
<BR>
Particularly once you factor in the means of transmission. If you are able<BR>
to capture their couriers or otherwise get them to divulge the messages<BR>
they are carrying then you are probably in a vastly superior position<BR>
strategically anyway. Just another example of Traveller not working like<BR>
the twentieth century. Once the shooting starts Sigint at the Fleet level<BR>
is probably irrelevant.<BR>
<BR>
Before the shooting starts is a different matter. I wonder what it would be<BR>
worth to any of the 3I's adversaries to infiltrate the X-boat network? Even<BR>
if you can't decode the messages the mere volume of trafic will tell you<BR>
alot about fleet dispositions. (as was pointed out on another thread.)<BR>
{Unless of course the IN folks deliberately inflate traffic to backwater<BR>
posts to throw spys off the scent.}<BR>
And if you are able to compromise the code keys then that's lots of<BR>
gravy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thank you for your thought provoking reply to my querie.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
Old version - Build a better mousetrap and<BR>
the world will beat a path to your door.<BR>
New version - Build a better mousetrap and<BR>
some @$*% will build a better mouse.<BR>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:00:43 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Elmore Artwork in T4<BR>
<BR>
At 22:12 -0500 11/12/99, "Swordy \(Colin Michael\)" <BR>
<swordworlder@clinic.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Anyone got an idea how much the original  of one of the Elmore B&W<BR>
> > drawings from T4 would be worth?<BR>
>I'll start the bidding off at 12.50 ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Splort!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:08:19 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: OT: Dragon Archive Question<BR>
<BR>
At 22:12 -0500 11/12/99, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:<BR>
>I recieved my copy of the archieve from Amazon yesterday and was finally<BR>
>able to squeeze in time for a quick look through it.  Looks *very* good.<BR>
>One question though, wasn't it supposed to include the issues of "Strategic<BR>
>Review"?<BR>
<BR>
Zane,<BR>
<BR>
I bought a copy yesterday from my FLGS and have a Mac so I have to <BR>
open the disk as a normal CD and launch issues into Acrobat - ie no <BR>
friendly interface. If you open the disk like that you should find <BR>
the SR pdfs on the Vol 1 disk in the folder Mags.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Also has anyone got a list of what issues have Traveller related articles?<BR>
>I know of one, and am sure there are more.<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't mind knowing that myself!<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: It'd be nice to see JTAS and Challenge done like this <BR>
(obviously TD, TC, MTJ and SGK would be nice additions too but I <BR>
doubt that will happen).<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:10:01 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
At 22:12 -0500 11/12/99, Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com> wrote:<BR>
> > >(My definition of "pretty f*****g cold": when it gets down to -40, as it<BR>
> > >usually does at least once during the winter up here. That's *really*<BR>
> > >f*****g cold!)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -40 is just a bit chilly. When I was a lad in Saskatoon I just threw on<BR>
> > another lawyer of clothing and skied to school. No problem as long as you<BR>
> > dress and behave appropriately. Now -60 is cold.<BR>
>Here in N'Awlins, people start whining about the cold and wearing<BR>
>coats when it gets below +50F. I grew up in Michigan, and spent<BR>
>several years in Connecticut--to me, that's still T-shirt weather.<BR>
>(Yes, I know what all you people from Minnesota and parts north<BR>
>are going to say ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Interesting - I feel like a NASA Mars probe as until the last two <BR>
posts in this I've been assuming that the thread was talking Celcius.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:09:17 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
At 03:30 PM 12/10/99 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Coax them gently, and they tend to come around. The stubbornest<BR>
I've met,<BR>
>> however, was a man who was the non-gamer to his avid-gamer wife.<BR>
He became<BR>
>> a rules lawyer from HELL. So bad, in fact, that no one wants to<BR>
game with<BR>
>> him. And he'll only play AD&D 2nd, and only FR or DL settings, and<BR>
won't<BR>
>> tolerate even the minorest of house rules, deviations from print,<BR>
or<BR>
>> interpretations which conflict with his (unless backed up in<BR>
Dragon).<BR>
><BR>
>Anybody who tries *that* level of "rules lawyering" in a campaign<BR>
*I*<BR>
>am running will get shown the section of the rules that states the<BR>
GM<BR>
>is free to alter or interpret rules any way he chooses. If that<BR>
doesn't<BR>
>work, he or she will be shown the door.<BR>
<BR>
	I try to forestall that with the following section from my "Player's<BR>
Introduction" document (plagiarized from many places ... wait, if<BR>
it's many places it's "research" ...)<BR>
<BR>
My basic philosophy for this game is to set the stage ("You're next<BR>
to a swamp") and the goal ("You need a bridge across the swamp"). You<BR>
decide who goes into the swamp to build the bridge, and I just make<BR>
sure the alligators in the swamp get equal air time. In order to have<BR>
a common framework, and throw in an element of "realism" and<BR>
fairness, I'll use the mechanics of GDW's rules, with my own<BR>
modifications. My goal is to be fair and consistent and while I<BR>
welcome your observations and help, I am the final arbitrator of the<BR>
rules. If, during the game, you have a question or complaint about my<BR>
interpretation of the rules, I'll try to answer it briefly, but I'd<BR>
rather make a slight consistent error and continue with the plot for<BR>
everyone to enjoy rather than spends hours arguing. I may ask you to<BR>
wait until after the session to keep things from bogging down. If you<BR>
disagree about the rules themselves, please save it for between<BR>
sessions. We all want to keep the action flowing.<BR>
<BR>
- -- Friends will help you move. Good friends <BR>
   will help you move a body.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 10:12:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, you are right about your other points.  Alfred Korzybiski came<BR>
>up with General Semantics.  I'm not sure who created Null-A<BR>
>philosophy.<BR>
<BR>
From the Games Machine entry in the Facts on File book "Aliens, Robots and<BR>
Spaceships" by Jeff Rovin:<BR>
<BR>
"The term "null-A" was coined by Count Alfred Korzybski in his "General<BR>
Semantics" book *Science and Sanity*."<BR>
<BR>
In my own experience with the Facts on File books by Rovin, he's usually<BR>
right on target.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:04:48 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
I see.  Is this book still obtainable?<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 10:12 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Yes, you are right about your other points.  Alfred Korzybiski came<BR>
> >up with General Semantics.  I'm not sure who created Null-A<BR>
> >philosophy.<BR>
><BR>
> >From the Games Machine entry in the Facts on File book "Aliens, Robots<BR>
and<BR>
> Spaceships" by Jeff Rovin:<BR>
><BR>
> "The term "null-A" was coined by Count Alfred Korzybski in his "General<BR>
> Semantics" book *Science and Sanity*."<BR>
><BR>
> In my own experience with the Facts on File books by Rovin, he's usually<BR>
> right on target.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 11:00:03 -0500<BR>
From: "Vincent P. Runci" <vahid@prodigy.net><BR>
Subject: RE:  List Members in an Active Campaign Wager<BR>
<BR>
     Regarding the wager on list members actually engaged in a current<BR>
campaign, I have a horrible confession to make.   I am one of "those"<BR>
people.  I love Traveller but I haven't actually played in quite some time<BR>
(since I enlisted in the Army).  Anyway the comment somebody made (sorry but<BR>
I don't have the name available) that said in effect that we should at least<BR>
be involved in a PBEM campaign intrigued me.  I would very much like to be<BR>
in an active campaign, but I don't know where to look for PBEM type stuff.<BR>
Could somebody send me some information?   Thanks<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 22:05:52 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
>Here in N'Awlins, people start whining about the cold and wearing<BR>
>coats when it gets below +50F. I grew up in Michigan, and spent<BR>
>several years in Connecticut--to me, that's still T-shirt weather.<BR>
>(Yes, I know what all you people from Minnesota and parts north<BR>
>are going to say ;-)<BR>
<BR>
T-shirt?  Who needs t-shirts?  Like, you don't even put up the convertible<BR>
until it starts snowing, eh?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:50:09 -0500<BR>
From: "Eric Freitas" <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Food Sources for Space Colonies<BR>
<BR>
On a related note, biologists have recently discovered a gene that <BR>
controls the growth rate of plants.  Brings to mind the possibility of<BR>
growing crops in weeks instead of months.  Cool<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Robert O'Connor <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 10:40 PM<BR>
Subject: Re : Food Sources for Space Colonies<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>The day of the 'faux-flesh' vat may be upon us very soon.<BR>
>Three Dutch inventors last week patented a technique<BR>
>where animal cells are cultivated on a collagen matrix.<BR>
>    The technique apparently works with cells from cattle,<BR>
>sheep, chickens, oysters, crabs and shrimp.<BR>
><BR>
>Ian Ferguson posted some numbers on biomass productivity in various<BR>
>biomes back in the days of the Xenobiology 101 thread (which I would<BR>
>repost - but they are on another computer).<BR>
>    These would represent ballpark figures as to how much edible<BR>
>biomass could be obtainable from aquaculture and conventional soil based<BR>
>methods.<BR>
><BR>
>Food sources that haven't yet been mentioned (as of digest #1323)<BR>
>include fungi and yeasts.<BR>
>Single-cell protein (bacteria or yeast grown on sewage, crude oil or<BR>
>some similar substrate) is another option for our space farmers.<BR>
>    Mushrooms, etc. don't need much room to cultivate.<BR>
><BR>
>Robert O'Connor<BR>
>Medico, Gamer<BR>
>-----------------<BR>
>Prediction of Doom : 'Population will grow faster than food supply.'<BR>
>Human Response : 'Scientists realise you can call just about anything<BR>
>a "meat patty".'<BR>
><BR>
>- Scott Adams, 'The Dilbert Future'<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 12:06:57 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 11 Dec 1999, Cynthia Higginbotham wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Here in N'Awlins, people start whining about the cold and wearing<BR>
> coats when it gets below +50F. I grew up in Michigan, and spent<BR>
> several years in Connecticut--to me, that's still T-shirt weather.<BR>
> (Yes, I know what all you people from Minnesota and parts north<BR>
> are going to say ;-)<BR>
<BR>
My favorite desert moment of all time was the day that it got down to 60<BR>
here, and I saw someone in a parking lot wearing a down ski jacket....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
....and shorts and sandals.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 15:30:07 -0500<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: re: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
At 11:20 PM 12/11/99 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>OK, with that out of my system:<BR>
>Introducing new players to the OTU can be a bit of a worry.  There's<BR>
a<BR>
>whole lot of "stuff" out there, and it takes a long time to<BR>
assimilate. <BR>
>Because I've got my new game starting soon, I'm trying to work out<BR>
what is<BR>
>necessary for people to know to make sensible decisions about<BR>
character<BR>
>generation, and so on.<BR>
><BR>
>How do people deal with that?  I don't really care what game you are<BR>
>playing:  how do you go about introducing new people to a complex,<BR>
and<BR>
>unfamiliar setting?  I have to admit that I originally used to just<BR>
wing<BR>
>it, but the games I tended to run weren't particularly coherent, and<BR>
this<BR>
>time I'm trying to focus on a small astrographical area and a very<BR>
intense<BR>
>power struggle.<BR>
<BR>
	I started putting together a player's background document, with a<BR>
variety of things in it ... the background of the universe, an<BR>
overview of how I run things, quick summaries of the major rules,<BR>
skills and characteristics, etc. I very liberally plagiarized from<BR>
(among other things) the draft TNE documents GDW posted on GEnie, as<BR>
well as mailing list comments from various people. I usually hand it<BR>
to new players and walk them through the major points. Next, I follow<BR>
up with a quick one-shot adventure; my all-time favorites are "Divine<BR>
Intervention" or "Chamax Plague." Why can't we get more of that kind<BR>
of gaming supplement ...?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- Friends will help you move. Good friends <BR>
   will help you move a body.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:37:28 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
On 12/12/99 at 11:10 AM,  SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> > -40 is just a bit chilly. When I was a lad in Saskatoon I just threw on<BR>
>> > another lawyer of clothing and skied to school. No problem as long as you<BR>
>> > dress and behave appropriately. Now -60 is cold.<BR>
<BR>
>>Here in N'Awlins, people start whining about the cold and wearing<BR>
>>coats when it gets below +50F. <BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Interesting - I feel like a NASA Mars probe as until the last two <BR>
>posts in this I've been assuming that the thread was talking Celcius.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I don't care whether it's F or C, if it's a negative<BR>
number it's too cold for me.  I'm one of those people Cynthia was<BR>
talking about...sweaters at 60F, thick coats at 50F, mittens,<BR>
earmuffs and layered clothes at 40F, huddle around the stove at 30F,<BR>
and if it gets colder than that it's time to migrate further south!<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, we *do* need a couple of days below freezing to hold down the<BR>
mosquitos.  Oh, let's say, a Wednesday and Thursday in the middle of<BR>
January.  <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
   says, "Ice only belongs in sweet tea!"  <BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 13:49:01 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Deserts<BR>
<BR>
On 12/11/99 at 10:05 PM,  Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Here in N'Awlins, people start whining about the cold and wearing<BR>
>>coats when it gets below +50F. I grew up in Michigan, and spent<BR>
>>several years in Connecticut--to me, that's still T-shirt weather.<BR>
>>(Yes, I know what all you people from Minnesota and parts north<BR>
>>are going to say ;-)<BR>
<BR>
>T-shirt?  Who needs t-shirts?  Like, you don't even put up the<BR>
>convertible until it starts snowing, eh?<BR>
<BR>
Snow?  Oh, that white stuff that we see on televison sometimes!<BR>
It's similar to that stuff that grows in our freezers...yes?<BR>
<BR>
And as for convertibles..while they are a nice idea, they tend to<BR>
turn into big bath tubs with little warning.  Besides picking bugs<BR>
out of my teeth isn't something I'm fond of.<BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    who can count the times he's seen snow on the fingers of one hand<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 00:26:03 -0500<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
I get everything in digets mode, so I'm doing a mondo-reply<BR>
as it's easier than 3 separate replies.<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> Well, I'd read the fine print in the NAFTA treaty before I got *too*<BR>
> content. That's the sort of thing it was intended to cover.<BR>
<BR>
I think we're in "violent agreement" here, Leonard. I don't<BR>
believe that living in Canada is by any means immunity. It just<BR>
makes things slightly more irritating.<BR>
<BR>
And to really talk out of my ass, I don't think NAFTA deals <BR>
with that sort of thing. I'm sure it's covered by some other<BR>
multi-lateral agreement though.<BR>
<BR>
> Lifting ideas is *usually* not actionable. Unless you can get a court<BR>
> to agree that said ideas as expressed in *your* work as "derivative<BR>
> works" from *his* work.<BR>
> <BR>
> And in a world where Lotus won that "look & feel" lawsuit, I'd be<BR>
> worried. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Lotus has lawyers like trees have leaves. Roger Sanger has unpaid<BR>
bills like bird cages have shit. <BR>
<BR>
I am not talking about where the thin blue line of the law is drawn<BR>
around DGP's works & rights. I'm talking about the practical<BR>
matter of whether or not you can reasonably be expected to be charged<BR>
for doing something. Right or wrong, I'm pretty sure you can get<BR>
away with anything less than plagarism.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:<BR>
> I mean, amen.  Couldn't agree more.  However, if you're working on stuff<BR>
> that may see print, it's perhaps a bit more to be expected that the<BR>
> hypothetical publishers would be more cautious.  That's the problem with<BR>
> the "Vilani Sourcebook" project that's been floating around on the<BR>
> TravCult list.<BR>
<BR>
Eh. Sure, I can understand that. But what, the editors all sit around<BR>
checking everything? Right. They tell you not to, you ignore them, everyone<BR>
is happy. Does saying this make me sound cynical?<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Possibly, but it depends whether Marc etc generated the name first.<BR>
> Or does it fall under the names and 'concepts' licence from GDW?  It<BR>
> doesn't appear to be in AM1.<BR>
<BR>
You miss my point. Who cares what the license says? If you won't<BR>
get charged, then it's not against the law. That's how common law<BR>
works.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(Yes, that's a joke. Sheesh.)<BR>
<BR>
Ethan<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                        egh@klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:57:15 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: The Rise and Supposed Decline of the RPG Empire<BR>
<BR>
On 11 Dec 99, at 18:42, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Frankly, I'm not sure I'd classify the Union (they're the ones with<BR>
> Azi, right?) as *human*. <BR>
<BR>
I can't remember if the Union call them Azi, but they do rely on vat <BR>
grown workers. _Serpent's Reach_ had Azi, and Chondrin (near immortals) <BR>
and hive minds called Marjat (something like that, anyway).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1483<BR>
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